DDs Episode 19: Surviving PPD in the Shadow of the Lindsay Clancy Trial with Guest Diva Destiny

0:08 SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello. Welcome to Distracted Divas. Like, share, and subscribe. Today we have a guest. It'll be Diva Destiny. Welcome to the show, Destiny. Hello, guys. Thank you for having me. Welcome, Destiny. Yes, welcome to Destiny.

0:24 SPEAKER_00: And she was one of our um listeners who actually wrote in, and now she's on. So you see, you can be a destiny.

0:33 SPEAKER_01: That's right. I like that. I like that.

0:35 SPEAKER_00: That was cool.

0:35 SPEAKER_01: So yeah, our divorce today will go ahead and talk with us today in regards to the Lindsay Clancy trial and postpartum psychosis. Today that will be our topic. So we're going to elaborate and break that down and unpack it.

0:50 SPEAKER_02: So thanks for being with us. Thank you guys for having me.

0:56 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so in case um you don't know what's going on, this is like one of the hottest things going on right now on social media. I'm seeing it all the time. But um so there in Massachusetts, in the Massachusetts courtroom right now, there's a case that has horrified and deeply divided the public, the murder trial of Lindsay Clancy. Um both sides agree on the tragic fact. In January 2023, the Duxbury mother strangled her three children, Cora, Dawson, and baby Cowan, before jumping from a second-story window, leaving her permanently paralyzed.

1:32 SPEAKER_03: But inside the courtroom, a fierce legal battle is being fought over why it happened. Prosecutors are laying out a chilling timeline, arguing that Lindsay acted with deliberate premeditation using calculated errands to get her husband out of the house. The defense, however, paints a radically different picture of a medical system failure. They argue Lindsay was driven by postpartum psychosis, plagued by command hallucin hallucinations, and trapped in a di downward, downward spiral caused by a cocktail of over a dozen prescribed psychiatric uh medications.

2:14 SPEAKER_03: So that's what's going on. Um I would say that uh that the case is is about her legal fate, but in the court of public opinion, there's been a lot of talk on social media and everything of um you know, did she do it? Did he do it? You know, that's a huge thing going on. But the bigger thing that that I think is not being talked about or is being, I guess, brought to the light and forefront is um postpartum depression and you know the psychosis. And so definitely um I saw a comment from her and kind of reached out to her and we um got to discussing what she's been through.

3:03 SPEAKER_03: So Destiny, we'll let you take it from there.

3:06 SPEAKER_02: Okay. Um the good thing is today though, I I can honestly talk about it without like, you know, like breaking out crying, because I think that's come from, like I had said, you know, beginning to forgive myself.

3:20 SPEAKER_01: Yes.

3:21 SPEAKER_02: And also coming to understand that even though I feel like it's been around for a while, I feel like it's not something that we openly discuss. Um I would say my case was out of fear of them taking my child and me being 302. Um I will say that um it's real. And I I think the postponum depression isn't spoken about as much, especially for those of us like myself who had other undiagnosed mental health issues as well. Um and it it was like um a whirlwind of um darkness, I'd have to say. I feel as if with my bout with the postponum depression, the situation I could also say circled around how someone ended up with child, you know, can fuel that mind frame.

4:19 SPEAKER_02: But it's funny, I also talked to one of my best friends earlier today about this topic. And she told me that her daughter, who had her grandson, actually had, you know, the the perfect life you would think for the child and went through it too. So and hearing her, you know, her aspect on that, we was like, it was like, and when I say, well, you know, like my son wasn't playing, she said, Well, my grandson was, you know, married couple together, planned child, tried for years to have a child and couldn't.

4:48 SPEAKER_02: And then I said, So your daughter pretty much was like blindsided with something she didn't expect to come, which was the first part of depression, you know. Um me, I would have to say the fact I would have to say the fact that my son, like I said, was not planned. Um unfortunately, at the moment, it was a one-time hookup, me and his father. I do not say that now, obviously. My son is 13 years old today and is the yeah, he's he turned he turned 13 this year. Well, yes, happy birthday to your son.

5:24 SPEAKER_02: Yes, thank you. Um he's going to be a big thing. No, no, no. He's his birthday's in April. No, he's like the 13 years old. Like, oh yeah, no, I'm sorry, I apologize. Uh 13th. 13th, yes. My birthday's April 14th. And my mom says the 15th. Wow. Oh yeah.

5:42 SPEAKER_03: Well, um, my daughter, I I won't get into all the details on that right now, but my daughter, she's no longer with us, but her birthday was on the 15th, also.

5:53 unknown: Yeah.

5:53 SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah. My niece.

5:55 SPEAKER_01: Yes. Our nieces, yeah.

5:57 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, our nieces. Absolutely. Our nieces. Absolutely. Yeah.

6:02 SPEAKER_01: Um, there you go. So for those who wanted to ask, for those that don't know, what is 302?

6:07 SPEAKER_02: If you wanna I would have to say my experience with 302, because I do have four 302s on my background. Um what is 302? Like medical terming or how some people don't know that that's what that means. Involuntary hospitalization, as I've always been told, you know, as if somebody else, you know. Like it's like you can be there's a 201. That would be like if you signed yourself in to like the psych hospital. But 302 will be somebody on the outside. Like mine was the police. I've been 302 by the police.

6:37 SPEAKER_02: I was also 302 by a family friend. Anyone that can pretty much prove that like you're a harm to yourself or others compared to me walking in and saying I'm gonna harm myself or others. So I think I don't know the medical terminology when it comes to that, but I do know from my experience that's what it was. Okay. Yes.

6:56 SPEAKER_03: I so back um before we got off track there for a minute, which that's why we're distracting each of us. You said that this was a one-time hookup. His father. Okay.

7:06 SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, his father was um one time. I kind of say this to everybody, I think 10 minutes changed my life. And you definitely didn't.

7:15 SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry, it's only 10 minutes.

7:17 SPEAKER_02: No, I mean I'm not actually, I'm not. I'm gonna teach you later.

7:23 SPEAKER_03: We're being serious now, but I'm gonna get you later. We are one of the things, if you don't know us, is uh, you know, if you don't laugh, you'll cry. So we gotta throw some jokes in there.

7:37 SPEAKER_02: I agree with you. I agree.

7:39 SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. Yeah, so we're gonna throw some jokes in there, trust me.

7:43 SPEAKER_02: I'll take them, I need them. I sell jokes all the time and they're corny, so we're all taking too life is too serious. Yeah, yes. I agree, I agree.

7:52 SPEAKER_03: Okay, sorry, we keep interrupting.

7:53 SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're fine, you're fine, it's okay. Um, so I um yes, like Nina's dad uh hooked up. Um at the time I did not know his father was married with child at home and um whole situation that I was thrown into. Um I won't even get into like the old nine months of pregnancy, you know, but I went through um I honestly was gonna terminate the pregnancy. I was gonna have an abortion. Um, I didn't have insurance at the time. And um hold on, another question for you.

8:25 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Um what type of situation were you in at the time that you met him? Were you in a single mother, uh, single person living their life, going to work, coming home, doing their thing?

8:37 SPEAKER_02: No, no, I I was 19 years old and we're living with my mom. Yeah. I wasn't just out of high school, just graduated high school.

8:48 SPEAKER_00: So he presented himself as money and he did whatever he did. And like all of us, and that's not that's not all of us, but 90% of us are like, oh, he has some money and let me hang out with him.

9:00 SPEAKER_02: He basically pretty much, yeah, he uh smoked a smoked marijuana with it.

9:05 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he came as a care. And we hooked up. You know, the guy that you know he keeps you entertained, he yeah, he cares, and you know, when we're young, we don't well no truthfully speaking, with you guys, though, he wasn't it wasn't even it was like a literal like me and breed situation.

9:21 SPEAKER_02: Like I didn't even know anything. I didn't, honestly. I was like I was 19 years old, I was very young and wild and smoking marijuana and I was out of control at that point in my life, totally out of control at that point in my life. So it was like uh little minute interaction, pretty much. Never thought I'd see him again. Never okay.

9:44 SPEAKER_03: Um public service announcement. Even you know, if you're with somebody, just you know, hey, what you just said, never thought I'd see him again, but now never here we have 13 years you see him for the rest of your life.

9:58 SPEAKER_02: 13 years you see him for the rest of our life, yeah.

10:01 SPEAKER_03: So if you are even if you are with somebody, yeah, and you're maybe haven't thought about kids yet, yeah. Think about do you want to be with this person for the rest of your life? Because with a child, you need to be connected to them in some way for the rest of your life.

10:17 SPEAKER_02: Oh yes, and you know, and you know what? I wish that was something I answered, you know, because it it was definitely a responsibility that like I knew I couldn't take on, you know, and I had to be honest with self. I feel as if if I tried to fake the funk, that would have been like selfish on my end, kind of, you know, like I knew I was not even just financially, but you know, maturely responsibly, I was in no way to take on a child. I wasn't.

10:40 SPEAKER_01: So would you say that started um during your pregnancy in regards to um everything that trickled down or after the pregnancy, did things get better with him, or were things changing to where your your thought process kind of shifted?

10:58 SPEAKER_02: I would say the thought process shifted, honestly, as I got closer delivering. You know, I did. And honestly, it didn't even shift for the better because I saw that my situation still had not changed. You know, I was still living in a shelter for pregnant women, I was not working, and it was like as I got closer to the day, I kind of couldn't like run away from it at that point. Right.

11:22 SPEAKER_00: How was your family? Do you have family? Did you have any family members that could embrace this or maybe help you for a couple of months and then you have to do this? Or did you find family members that can reach out to help you?

11:37 SPEAKER_02: If you ask them, yes.

11:40 SPEAKER_00: If you ask me, not necessarily.

11:44 SPEAKER_00: The thing that we understand is this, and like I'm a mama bear, so the thing that we understand is yes, we could be there for you, right? But we may want you to change some parts of your life that you don't want to change right now. So for you, that's a no. It wasn't at the time.

12:01 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I wasn't, right?

12:02 SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't. I mean, it's not you don't want to you don't want to actively blame somebody. No, you want to say, no, I didn't feel like it because at that time of your life, you're 19, and like you're not grown, you're young. And you didn't want to change anything, so it's like, no, I don't have anybody.

12:18 SPEAKER_02: I didn't know that.

12:19 SPEAKER_00: You could have had the world, but to you, because they didn't accept you, because as an adult now, back then, you wanted them to accept you as you were, as you were at that time. And they were like, hell no. I'm not saying your people, I'm just saying, no, they were there. Hell no. You know, Michael. If you come here, you gotta do ABC, but that's not who I am.

12:41 SPEAKER_02: Yeah. But you have to be. I would say that about, I think it was about almost eight months in pregnant. I did end up moving back home with my mom. Um, and that's exactly my mom was very tough up. She is, she's to this day, she is tough up. But it's like looking back at the situation now, I think what it was was I don't think she was disappointed in the fact of me having my son because to this day it is also her only grandchild. My parents' only grandson, child. Yeah. I have an older brother and a younger sister, but they don't have kids.

13:09 SPEAKER_02: So my son is like very spoiled with them, especially my mom. But um, looking back at it now, I think she was just like, she knew I could do better pretty much. You know.

13:20 SPEAKER_00: Well, uh as a grandparent, as a grandparent, I feel like, and I understand because you could be my child. So as a grandparent, we're never unhappy about the grandchild. We just want you to to do better so that you can take care of your child. Yeah. That doesn't mean we won't help. But at 19, we our expectations for you guys are too high. And that's a problem. Yeah. Because back in back in our days, we didn't know how to talk to our childs about what your what's your expectations for yourself. Good question.

13:57 SPEAKER_00: The way we presented it to them was harsh. So they said what they thought we wanted to hear.

14:03 SPEAKER_02: You know, I could I could honestly apply that to my son now, what you were just asking. Well, that question you just asked I could. I could really apply that to my son now. I could. Um, because my mom, she um, you know, she um my son can do no wrong in her eyes, though. You know, like nothing. No grand kids can do any wrong in our eyes. Right, no matter what. He's been in a lot of trouble at school. He's gotten a lot of trouble over these past years at school, you know. And as my mom, it's like, oh my God.

14:29 SPEAKER_02: I sometimes I look at my mom and I'm like, you know, where where was this mind frame when I was that age? You know, because like I didn't get that. My son does nothing, but I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't even take it from either one of them, though. Yeah, I don't take it from either one of them. Yeah. So yeah, like I said, I was living with her.

14:47 SPEAKER_03: So you mentioned that you were also at a shelter for a little bit. Was that while you were pregnant? Yeah, I was there. Or when you had your son, um, were you living at home at that time?

14:59 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I had just hit like eight months. And I know I remember it so vividly because I was living with my mom when I went into the the day I went into labor, obviously, because I remember she like was leaving for work. And I woke up and told her she was leaving out for work, you know, and then she told me now if anything changes, call her at work. And I went across the street to my best friend's house, and then you know, they took me to the hospital, and my mom came straight to the hospital. Yeah, but you know it was my friend, calling what you doing, girl.

15:27 SPEAKER_02: Well, she ended up, you know, she walked me around that hospital uh floor, and you know, that I forget what it's called. I'm gonna say pregnancy floor, uh pregnancy ward. The maternity ward, maternity ward, yes. And I remember her walking me around, rubbing my back, you know, trying to help with the labor thing.

15:42 SPEAKER_00: So I have a question for you. When did you know that you were depressed? Like it was a depression. When did you when did you start feeling like the way you wrote the letter, like we want to kind of divulge into when did you start feeling that that I I don't want to be, I don't want to do this, I don't want to when did you start feeling that?

16:08 SPEAKER_02: I honestly would have to say I probably felt that before I even left the hospital that third day. Honestly, because it was in my way, in a sense, I kind of felt like like my life was over, not looking at the fact that my life was just beginning, you know. I kind of was like in that young-minded, selfish, you know, I can't hang out with my friends anymore. I have a baby now, you know. Like, but that's I haven't even hit 21 yet. Like, you know, like I'd have to say that. And I like I said, I think the situation with me even having to sign that verse to figure out without a father on the name, you know, and I I was like, did I really just sign up for something that like I really didn't want?

16:47 SPEAKER_01: And depression could come in many ways for many different things. Um, I myself, uh, I was married with a husband at home pregnant, and I was depressed because I actually still felt alone, even though I was yeah, so I felt in depression and my own.

17:04 SPEAKER_00: I don't think men feel realize that. I don't think they realize that, and and even at my age, and I've been in relationships, not a whole bunch, but relationships. I don't think men realize that you could be in the same room with them and still feel alone. They're like, what are you talking about? I take care of you. What the fuck has that got to do with you?

17:24 SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it could be many different for many different reasons.

17:29 SPEAKER_00: So I would say with you is what what when you were in the hospital and you were feeling that did you tell a doctor? Did you tell a nurse? I didn't say anything. So you just and then you went home, didn't you wanted to not keep that? Yeah, when did you start feeling like you wanted to not be here any longer?

17:47 SPEAKER_02: Well I would have to say, I don't know, you know what, this is the reason you I think this is how I kind of knew I was heading into like the the postpartum like version of depression because honestly, sometimes it wasn't even that I didn't want to be there anymore. It was like sometimes I had the thought, not sometimes I did, I had the thought that I didn't want my child there. Honestly, I didn't.

18:09 SPEAKER_00: So tell us, wait, so we're trying to understand. So we want you to tell us more of what that means when you say you don't want your child there. What what what's in your brain thinking, I don't want my child? Do you not want your child to live the life you that you chose, or do you not want your child to live in this world because you don't like the world? Do you not want your child to live with your parents? Like what made you think that?

18:34 SPEAKER_02: I would have to say, because I know it sounds and I think this is the reason I bomb at it on top of it.

18:40 SPEAKER_00: Nothing is dumb. Nothing is dumb. If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. So we're hugging you. We're giving you a hug right now. Oh, thank you. Let's give her a hug. Wow, that's awesome. Thank you so much.

18:50 SPEAKER_02: Well, no, I would I would have to say, I think that's the reason I was captured by the case, because of how they say this mother killed her children. You know, and it was like that I had hit that. I I had. I um I just I had a couple thoughts of killing my child, you know.

19:12 SPEAKER_01: So the strength to even stop yourself. Yeah, because you know, it didn't go this far. So it didn't, it didn't amazing. So you still had strength in you and knowledge to kind of pause.

19:24 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, and that's why I I had said that I had said, you know, I wish that I think postpartum was looked at, like as they say, like the illness it is, we would be able to tell the difference between like the mothers who are feeling and thinking this way solely because of everything that comes after pregnancy, the hormone changes and all that compared to those who you know truly do need psychiatric help, you know. Like because I've also was always told in educated self that I think they say after a certain amount of months, I say I even can reach up to one year of age when you start to phase out of the postpartum depression, you know.

20:01 SPEAKER_02: And it's like I I don't think that that like way about him now, you know. I mean, I got him, you know, he's 13 now, and I wouldn't do anything for that child, my son, the only child, and I keep it that way, you know.

20:14 SPEAKER_03: But um But yeah, that's what I was gonna say earlier was like you're I mean, this is a good point too. This is 13 years ago, like it probably I I don't even think even today that we're obviously like this case is bringing it to light that we are not taking this seriously, that these women are are really I didn't luckily have it or I don't remember having it. Um but you know, I can sympathize because of stuff I've been through in my life over the last couple of years with my daughter and her mental health.

20:43 SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, this mental health is a real, real big, huge issue right now. It is, it is.

20:50 SPEAKER_02: And I would also nobody's doing anything about it, you know. And I would say with the postpartum, what it is is like, like I said, like I read in comments on this case, people were saying things like, oh my god, how would you want to hurt your children? And how could you ever do something? And it's like I didn't want to hurt right. My son, uh, trust me, I I knew I didn't want to hurt him, but I also knew I didn't know where these thoughts were coming from, but they were there, you know, they were there.

21:18 SPEAKER_01: That moves a lot. That goes a lot of things happen. And that's when you need support.

21:23 SPEAKER_00: Wait, were you on any medication at that time? Did they give you anything? And I no, I didn't. But you never had any medication at all.

21:31 SPEAKER_02: At that point in my life, no.

21:34 SPEAKER_00: But I'm saying the thing is this. So you so you never had any c medication, but you also didn't tell them that you were feeling like this because I did not. I didn't because if you because in your mind, if you thought that, then you thought that maybe I've taken the baby away.

21:47 SPEAKER_02: They're gonna take him, yeah, and I would go to a psych hospital somewhere.

21:50 SPEAKER_03: So I you were scared and I guess you felt shame about it too.

21:55 SPEAKER_02: I did, because that's the thing, you know, like that's the I wouldn't think like that. Like I Would think to myself like something has to be wrong with me, you know. Like you as your child, this is you know, your bundle of jewels are supposed to be that you know the happiest moments of your life. And I thought like something I was like, oh my god, like I could hear something was wrong with me, but I also was like, Do I say it? You know, like and I've even kind of had that little inner battle period with mental health as I've grown older, you know.

22:22 SPEAKER_02: I've unfortunately have had a huge problem with suicide and suicidal tendencies. And um, you don't want I didn't want to speak up because I was like, you know, I don't want them to think I'm gonna harm myself. I'm thinking that way, but the first thing they want to do is put you in the hospital. Like that's the first thing they want to do is institutionalize. Yep.

22:42 SPEAKER_00: So as you were doing that, you weren't drinking or smoking or any of that. While you were uh I'm just trying, we're trying to get a better thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

22:50 SPEAKER_02: No, at that time I wasn't I wasn't even using the drugs.

22:54 SPEAKER_00: So it's postpartum, something's wrong, it's postpartum. Right. And and back then, we don't think we have anything wrong with us. Right. We think we're okay. So we don't know how to ask for help. And if you tell your mother, your mother's like, oh girl, you're okay. You just you just died. Yeah, yeah. You tell your wife, oh girl, you'll be all right. Which is those are the people that you don't want to tell. Those are the people you don't want to tell. The people you want to tell are in the hospital next to you.

23:23 SPEAKER_00: Yes.

23:25 SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is still and we're talking like this because he's still here. He is you're telling us this because you're helping the people who have those thoughts right now. Yes, do something. Don't tell your mother, don't tell your brother, don't tell your father, tell the doctors.

23:43 SPEAKER_02: Yes, and I would always Because they'll give the baby to the mother, your mother. They won't give the baby. Yes, yes, right. And I would also have to say the biggest thing was like I'd have to say, I was already shameful for the situation. Yes, you know, small town, and my son was by a married man. Like it was like I I had the shame already. So it was like if I bring this up, like I'm really gonna be looked at like the failure of the not only mother, but as a person I felt at that time. You know, it was like I was already dealing with feeling kind of like a home wrecker almost, and then I'm like, you know, I got this, and if I tell them I need what's going on, but I would also have to say, realizing back then, there was a probably also a lot of other mental health diagnoses I've received as I've age that were very present then too, you know?

24:30 SPEAKER_02: They were very present then too. I would have to say that as well. So yeah.

24:34 SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, I know it takes a lot to even say that, like for real. It takes a lot to even say those types of things, but I want to interject some laughter in this. Absolutely. You might not like it, but I'm gonna interject some laughter in 10 minutes. He wasn't happy at home. She wasn't happy at home. You know what's funny?

24:53 SPEAKER_02: Me and her mom, me and a stepmom are like this today, actually. They're no longer together, but me and his stepmom can sit on the phone for like, and I call her my son's stepmom. Yeah, because yeah, my son was living with them from the ages of one to four before father got locked up.

25:09 SPEAKER_01: That went full circle pretty much for you.

25:12 SPEAKER_02: Yes, I trust me. That woman I say is my son's stepmom. She has my son's two sisters and brother from his dad as well. We we can talk on the phone for me a while. That's beautiful. It was funny though, a couple months ago, around Christmas time, we were on the phone and we finally discussed that day, you know, when I knocked on the door and I knocked on the grandmother's house door. The only place I remember where he took me that night, and then I introduced myself. And she came to the door, and uh, she said, I am.

25:40 SPEAKER_02: You were very bold for that.

25:41 SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.

25:42 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I said, I'm destiny and I'm pregnant. I turned and walked away. And we finally discussed it, but it's so funny because she told me, she said, I was wishing you would have stayed. He pulled up in my car like 10 minutes later. She said, and I whipped to town on him in that street. She said, I wish you would have stayed.

25:59 SPEAKER_03: Yes, yeah. Oh, all the love and applause. Yeah.

26:03 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, at least she's a good woman. She is, she's a very good woman. She is. Good. She was she was key in my son's life and still is.

26:11 SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's awesome.

26:12 SPEAKER_01: Yes. Okay, so for the people out there, what would you say that maybe a tip um that for ladies that are going through that as a maybe something to remember to keep with you in those moments?

26:28 SPEAKER_02: Yes. In your I would have to say what Miss Diva panelist said about how um I like how you said that about like not telling your mom or not telling to tell a doctor, because like I said, you it's like you don't want to tell those closest to you that you can't do it, period. And I have always found that me talking through therapy, it's like to tell somebody like, yeah, on the outside looking in, it's like the safest. You don't have to worry about it being repeated, you know, because like if I would have told my mom, my grandmother, aunt, second cousin, everyone would have known by the end of the night, you know.

27:03 SPEAKER_02: But it was like with like my therapist today and my outpatient, she is like my safe person. And you know, it's like telling somebody that isn't involved with you directly helps a lot. It's crazy because I always say I was told once by an older lady at a bus stop here in Philadelphia that I think she said you can meet the nicest people at a bus stop. And I, you know, I I definitely agree with her, you know. Yeah, because it's just you never have to worry about like the judgment because they don't really know you.

27:32 SPEAKER_02: And you know, you don't have to worry about it being on Facebook and you're tagged in it later. And I would have to say that though, and I not only speak about it, but when you speak about it though, I would have to say be ready for the work that comes with it too. I would I would have to say that it's not gonna just be about, you know, everyone telling you to take a Zole off and put a smile on your face. You know, it's it's gonna take that dedication. Ongoing work it is, and you're and it's ongoing is a good word because it's never, even though you may grow out of that postpartum depression phase as that child ages, that's why I said I found a lot of undiagnosed my mental health that I had been diagnosed with as I've aged, but they were very present.

28:15 SPEAKER_02: You know, it's never just anything that just stops, like it's gonna be something. I mean, I haven't been to the psych hospital since 2020, but between 2015, between 2015 and 2020, I was hospitalized 18 times, you know? Oh, yeah. It's like it's I don't, it's not something I think it's just over with, you know?

28:32 SPEAKER_00: They very much wear up, but I have a question for you. Um in when you're talking, you're talking you're telling us your testimony and all this. Does your son know any of this? Was this a does he does know.

28:46 SPEAKER_02: He knows, he knows about everything. Because you know, one reason I know I've asked him, it wasn't as he was younger, I'd have to say maybe a year ago. I talked with him because he had a bad day at school, he got suspended. And I told him, I said, Jackson, his name is Jackson. I said, Jax, do you remember anything? Yeah, and I I do smell with the X. It's J A X S.

29:06 SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm yeah, it's my Jackson.

29:08 SPEAKER_02: But I did, I asked him, I said, Do you remember anything, you know, like from your infancy? And he was like, Why would I remember? He's very smart and he's a very sarcastic, why would I remember anything from my infancy, mom? You know, he was like, Your brain doesn't start that. I was like, Okay, Jack, like no. Yeah, he gets like, I said, No, Jackson, do you remember anything between me and you? I said, Do any incidents, situations, anything? And he says, No, I don't. And I asked him, I said, Would you be open?

29:35 SPEAKER_02: He said, Yes. And I think the reason he said yes was because he had also been with me after I was getting I was using drugs four years ago when I got him back.

29:43 SPEAKER_01: So he's a very understanding.

29:45 SPEAKER_00: Oh, wait, you said when you got him back. When did when did somebody take him? Oh, but I want to say this, I want to interject this on you. So you're telling us your story, and we and trust me, we understand 100%. Well, we're not maybe not a hundred percent, but we understand. In telling your story going forward, yeah. Tell us about, tell us about you got him back. Like, when did they take first of all, tell us when they took him? Well, he was never that he was never taken.

30:12 SPEAKER_02: Um I had him up until the age of about, yeah, that's I had him up until the age of about 15, 16 months, living with my mom.

30:20 SPEAKER_00: Okay, hold on. I'm gonna I'm gonna stop you on certain things. So you had him up until the age of 15 months. Yes. How was how were you? Were you clean? Because it there's no nobody cares. I'm not saying nobody cares. No, no, no, I know, I know. Yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't. There's no, there's no judge that's gonna take you if you were using while you had a child because you have he would you were with your mom.

30:40 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes, yes, yes. No, I was. I was I had recently just moved back from Philadelphia. We were up in the city again because I had put us in a mommy and me program. That's where it was. We were in a mommy and me program, and then um that didn't work out. I forget, I think I he went home with my mom for a weekend back to my hometown, and I went out for my with my friends for the weekend and didn't come back. You know, and those type of programs, you can't stay out overnight. You know, it's not like there you can't stay out type stuff.

31:06 SPEAKER_02: So um we moved back home with my mom. My mom put me out of the house, and me and her got into an argument. And she should have. Yes, very well. So she was very right about that. She put me out of the house and pretty much told me I wasn't taking Jackson. I didn't even, I don't think at that point I argued because I had nowhere to go. Um, he went with his dad.

31:29 SPEAKER_01: So, Miss Destiny, would you say that postpartum psychosis is a thing in your opinion and your experience? Is that a thing? Is that some there's steps that could be done? Do you think therapy should be taken in pregnant women, maybe the last several months, in your opinion? What would you advise?

31:48 SPEAKER_02: I would definitely say it is a thing, and I I even like your suggestion, Peter. I do. Um, I do like you said that because um I do. I think it should be implemented, especially those who are kind of in like higher situations, I would even say. Like I said in the beginning, though, it's not always those of us who may have got pregnant unwanted. It's not, but I would say that like a lot of outside environmental factors. Like it may look everything looks good on the outside, but on the inside, like I don't know, you could have uh I know what they say with this case that a lot of people are trying to say that the husband drugged her up, and a lot of things that go on inside the home you may not know about, you know.

32:25 SPEAKER_02: So it's like I think that should be something implemented, especially those who are in high risk situations. I do. So it even those of us that may have also had mental health diagnosis previously, even as a teen, if you had a, you know, I was hospitalized as a teenager before in a psych hospital for you know something like that. I was like 14, but you know, it's like that's another thing that I I don't ever think mental health really disappears. I don't know.

32:50 SPEAKER_00: So do you think so?

32:52 SPEAKER_03: Do you think that like you say you're making me think that like just like you go to all your OBGYN appointments, maybe you should go to see a therapist as part of a ob gyn like checkup. Yeah, that's a really good idea.

33:07 SPEAKER_00: That's a great idea.

33:08 SPEAKER_03: Somebody who evaluate every person that's pregnant. I don't know. I mean, it's just something I'm spitballing out there, or they can have someone in the room while they're because it's another paraprofessional as well, so they can have someone in the room to listen to what you're saying behind the scenes while your doctor's asking your question, they can kind of compartmentalize um compartmentalize what you're saying as opposed to what you're saying, or come in one of the hospital visits and give you a little evaluation and also like whether they feel like something's wrong or not, just like give you an opening to be like, hey, if you ever having any really wild thoughts or whatever, call this line or give my office a call, or you know, I wouldn't.

33:58 SPEAKER_00: And if they're a therapist, they know how to say it without make without intimidating you, right? I would because that's one thing, a big thing about people that have psychosis, people intimidate them, so they're like, I know, I'm fine.

34:09 SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly. Yes, yes. I would say this though, that would should be if something implemented as you were doing while pregnant. I will say because I did have a friend, I think in November, November 1st, she had her baby and I went to visit her, and I was in the room when the social worker came in. And I was standing there first. I asked her, you know, you want me to leave before while you're talking to the social worker? She said no, it was fine. And I think it was like a risk assessment of the postpartum questions, but it's stuff that like I feel like if it's also answered prior, it could probably save a lot of, you know, like incidents further.

34:46 SPEAKER_02: Maybe these lives, people's lives. Yes, it could save a lot of stuff, like the questions they were asking her. And then when the social worker left, I did also say to her, I said, you know, if you ever do feel like you need help, speak. Like do not be afraid and do not be ashamed. Like it does not make you a bad mom. I think that's all I really needed to hear. So they make you a bad mom.

35:08 SPEAKER_00: When they when they took you at 14, did they prescribe you any meds or did they did they talk to you, talk to you and ask you, you know, like you can we can talk to each other and say, How you feeling? And we can lie and say, Oh, we're fine. Uh did they did they divulge or did they say, hey, if you take because I know just for a fact that when I go to my doctor and I say this hurts, that's hurts, the first thing you want to do is prescribe me meds. And I'm like, I'm not about to say that like I mean I'm saying that.

35:35 SPEAKER_02: I'm about to say that, yep, yep.

35:37 SPEAKER_00: But I'm saying, so they did. And it and because you were young, they they they probably just told your mom she needs to take this.

35:44 SPEAKER_02: And I would also say the medications they give a lot of kids nowadays, this ADHD, ADD diagnosis. You know, I was put on Adderall, and that is something that I honestly, by the time I turned 18 and had hold of medication, I was addicted to it by then, you know. Um, I also even believe addiction could be genetic, which is one key reason why, like my son going through the behavior problems he's going through at school, I keep telling them they keep pushing medication, you know, and I'm like, I don't he can be on medication, but I am hesitant about the narcotics.

36:16 SPEAKER_02: You know, I want to say this.

36:20 SPEAKER_00: I don't, just in that statement, and I don't want to divulge a whole bunch of stuff right now, but I don't think that uh drug that's genetics. I don't think that's purely genetics. Um, addiction is not purely genetics because I don't only need drugs though, you know.

36:38 SPEAKER_02: I don't mean only addiction to drugs. I mean like I don't solely like I would say like addiction, like I've been told that people are having addicted to many different things, not just like drugs and alcohol, though. Right, you know, because like my mom's four of us, she was a recover drug heavy user with us, and you know, like all four of us in some way, like older brother went to jail for unconsensual sex. I had drug addiction, younger brother.

37:02 SPEAKER_00: But the same that to me is if she and I'm not blaming anybody. If any if anybody's recovering, if they're recovering from drugs, they should already know how you feel. So to me, that person should be should be your savior saying, okay, I don't want her on this, I don't want her on this, I don't want her on that. This is what we this is what we want to do.

37:23 SPEAKER_02: Well, if I was to even sit here and tell you my whole life story, I I because I was adopted at three months. I have my biological mom and I have my mom that raised me. Yeah, I have two different moms. Makes sense, but that would take so much longer. If it was my biological mom, that wouldn't have happened. Well, you said is what my mom that raised me pretty much, like I guess makes she should. And it's probably why I am the way I am with my son is that. Did you ever meet your biological mother?

37:48 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Did you ever meet your biological father?

37:52 SPEAKER_02: No, don't even know his name.

37:54 SPEAKER_00: But well, and I but I want to say this you say no, when you say no the way you say no, a lot of times that has a lot to do because most girls want to know who their biological father is more than they want to know who their biological mother is. And you saying no tells the story immediately. And I feel like in the medical profession, therapists, they need to have somebody for people who have been adopted because you gotta fight through, you gotta crawl, you gotta grab through, you gotta go through all of that, know that no's in there.

38:35 SPEAKER_00: Oh, I don't care, or this, you gotta go get through all of that to get to the root of why we're at you're addressing it.

38:42 SPEAKER_02: Um I take therapy, Ms. I do, yes, yes, I do do that as well. And I will say this like I was our first cousins, you know, like adopted within the family. Don't know my uh where she goes.

38:59 SPEAKER_03: Okay, so we had um some technical difficulties there at the end and we lost destiny, but we were able to get her back, and we actually have a part two coming out. Um I just wanted to address that we are not professionals, we're just out here doing this for fun and entertainment. So this is strictly for entertainment. And if you want to find out more about any of the stuff that we've been talking about, then please go out, research it out on your own. Um and just to reiterate, this is about the Lindsey Clancy trial.

39:35 SPEAKER_03: And um at this point, the 12 jurors inside the Massachusetts courtroom will ultimately decide Lindsey Clancy's legal fate. A parallel trial is being played out across the country. In the court of public opinion, this case has completely fra fractured the public, drawing a razor-sharp line between demands for criminal accountability and a fierce outcry over mental um health and maternal mental health. On one side, a massive wave of advocates and medical professionals see Lindsay as a victim of a broken health care system.

40:12 SPEAKER_03: They point to her cocktail of 13 or more prescription drugs and argue she has been trapped in a terrifying and invisible battle with postpartum psychosis. And on the other side, an equally vocal public demands justice for Cora, Dawson, and Callan. For them, the prosecution's timeline of calculated phone searches and time to errands proves deliberate planning, not a sudden break from reality. Um I just feel like I said before, and like we have said in this podcast, it really just brings um a light to mental health and postpartum depression.

40:59 SPEAKER_03: And so that's what we just wanted to kind of talk about in this episode, and we will continue our conversation in part two next week. So I hope you guys have enjoyed this episode and will tune in to us next week.